Gaza pullout: a step towards peace?

08.22.05

Abbas and Sharon are making the usual meaningless statements about “working towards peace” and starting a “new page” in Israeli-Palestinian relations.

In the meantime, Hamas is giving the real picture:

Hamas and Islamic Jihad announced on Monday that they have reached an agreement with the Palestinian Authority according to which the two groups would not be disarmed.

[ . . . ]

“We stressed during the meeting that the Palestinians have the right to continue the resistance [against Israel] and that there would be no attempt to collect weapons from the resistance groups,” he added.

“The weapons of the resistance were founded to defend the Palestinian people and resist the occupation. The Gaza victory was achieved with the weapons of the resistance, which is the only strategy to drive Israel out of the rest of our lands.”

Any questions?

{ 50 comments… read them below or add one }

1 Tré 08.22.05 at 9:18 PM

When is Israel leaving the West Bank and East Jerusalem. When is the security of Palestinians going to mean as much as that of Israelis in the eyes of the world?

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2 Malia 08.22.05 at 9:52 PM

When are the Arabs going back to their 22 homelands and leave the Jewish homeland to the Jews?

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3 DaninVan 08.23.05 at 2:57 AM

Malia!! Where you been, GirL!? (How come you only show up when Hanthala~Tre shows up? I’m suspicious… thinking multiple personality syndrome ;))

Tre; never.

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4 Tré 08.23.05 at 2:01 PM

The homeland of the people living in the West Bank and Gaza is where they are living, for some, as well as “Israel proper,” for others. Lumping people together under the category “Arabs” to somehow justify ethnic cleansing is like lumping all Native Americans into one nation.

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5 Tré 08.23.05 at 2:01 PM

Dan, if that was the answer to my first question, you should not then complain about Palestinian resistance.

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6 John Palubiski 08.23.05 at 3:58 PM

No Tré, there is no comparison to Native Americans. Native Americans speak many, many different languages, inhabitat different climates ( from Arctic to Tropical) and possess a myriade of different cultures

There’s a world of difference betwewen the Pensacolas and the Cree.

One other VERY important thing; the Arabs are NOT the native inhabitants of large areas of what we call “Arab lands”.

The Copts, the Greeks, the Berbers, the Jews etc are the true “Native Americans” of the region.

The Arabo/Muslim world is the result of conquest, colonialism and imperialism, dontcha know!

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7 Malia 08.23.05 at 10:12 PM

John,
Couldn’t have said it better myself.

Daninvan,
Oh please! I haven’t read or commented on this blog in awhile but when I read Tre’s ridicoulous comments I had to respond. I didn’t even know it was Hanthala. I should have know after reading her response to you about “Palestinian resistance” Isn’t lovely how she frames Arab terror?

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8 DaninVan 08.24.05 at 5:11 AM

Malia; Just teasing, eh.
Hanthala always (conveniently) leaves out the part where Arabs terrorize Jewish settlers from the get go and finally ‘declare war’ with every intention of exterminating them. Didn’t quite work out as planned. Oh well, go to plan B.
If land was being returned to every ‘tribe’ that’s been displaced by war and persecution I’d probably be living in Israel or the Ukraine; depending on how far back in history one wanted to carry this principle. (Neither option is as appealing as living where I am now…on Indian land!
http://www.nightwoodeditions.com/author/TheSecheltNation

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9 John Palubiski 08.24.05 at 2:01 PM

Yeah! “Resistance” to what, exactly? Modernity? Human rights? The rule of law? Some cultures are better at “resistance” than others, eh.

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10 Tré 08.24.05 at 2:26 PM

Dan, different nations share the same language. Also, the Arabic spoken in Palestine, and that spoken in Morocco is very diffrent. The point is that linguistically and culturally, Palestinians form their own group. I’m not unaware that Arabs from the peninsula/gulf states migrated to Palestine. They brought Islam and Arabic with them. But (and this is all quite beside the issue btw) the ancestors of 19-20th century Palestinians were not only (or even primarily) those people from the gulf. I guess people were less xenophobic back then. Hell, their ancestors were probably Jews. The language/cultural migration is what counts. Finally, European Jews, if you still want to pursue Malia’s topic (which always leads away from any real issue), have much less ancestral ties to that land than Palestinians.

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11 Tré 08.24.05 at 2:30 PM

The real issue is the ethnic cleansing of 1948. It is not democratic to terrorize populations into leaving so that you can delcare an ethnic majority and independant country. Jewish settlers recently forced to move from their homes at least got compensation. All the Palestinians got was 50 years of statelessness.

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12 Tré 08.24.05 at 2:45 PM

Dan, if we want to go along the route of `they are all Arabs (because they speak Arabic, no differences between them` then we’d have to include all the sephardic Jews who speak Arabic.

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13 DaninVan 08.24.05 at 4:32 PM

My mind boggles! Hanthala, the simple underlying principle, endorsed by the UN, is that, following a war, (and let us not forget who started the ’48 war, eh?) ‘land belongs to whomever can take it and hold on to it’. Let us not also forget who started the Yom Kippur War (see the above).
Add to that the mind numbing refusal of Arafat to accept the offer of a State in exchange for peace and you have the present state of affairs.
I don’t hear a World outcry against the unfairness of the plight of the millions of other Displaced Persons resulting from war…I guess they’re just not as well organized and funded.
Do I sound unsympathetic? I didn’t used to be this callous, I also didn’t used to be as informed.
Sorry; no peace no empathy.

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14 DaninVan 08.24.05 at 4:41 PM

What Tre (Hanthala) doesn’t get is that this War on Terrorism is running counter to her desires. Palestinians have made a huge mistake allowing their cause to be tied to the resurgence of Islamism. The rest of the World is less than impressed…
http://erictheunred.blogspot.com/2005/08/blairs-ineffectual-war-on-islam.html
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20050824/wl_asia_afp/australiaislamattacks

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15 Tré 08.24.05 at 5:17 PM

Ok, hold on to territory (though I’m not quite sure which UN principle you are referring to or where/when this was endorsed), but you still are not allowed to practice ethnic cleansing on it. The 1967 war was started by Israel attacking Egyptian forces. The same UN you refer to made it clear that the West Bank, Gaza, and East Jerusalem are occupied by Israel.

The Palestinians’ refusal to accept the terms of the last proposal for statehood was a necessity if you actually look at what was offered and not rely on media headlines and oversimplifications. Sure, 95% of the West Bank. The other 5%, remaining under Israeli control, forming a gridwork of roads and security zones which truncates the West Bank into 3 separate land masses, these further separated from both Gaza and East Jerusalem. This is not a model for a viable state, its a joke.

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16 cliff from montreal 08.24.05 at 6:38 PM

Hanthala
You said’but you still are not allowed to practice ethnic cleansing on it.’ So I take it that you are not in support of the recent ‘ethnic cleansing’ of Jews from the settlements, then? Hanthala? Hanthala? You there? Where’s your fair and balanced voice Hanthala? Hypocrite.

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17 DaninVan 08.24.05 at 7:44 PM

cliff; ouch!

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18 cliff from montreal 08.24.05 at 8:22 PM

It says I’m being banned.Any reason for that Sari? I have to use a proxy to post.

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19 DaninVan 08.24.05 at 8:54 PM

That’s strange. I’m probably next…

In the meantime, for your edification and reading enjoyment;http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/fields/2194.html

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20 DaninVan 08.24.05 at 8:59 PM

Hmmm… that link didn’t seem to work as copied; here’s the text…

Top banner
The World Factbook Banner

Field Listing – Refugees and internally displaced persons

Home Reference Maps Appendixes

Country

Refugees and internally displaced persons
Afghanistan IDPs: 167,000 – 200,000 (mostly Pashtuns and Kuchis displaced in south and west due to drought and instability) (2004)
Algeria refugees (country of origin): 165,000 (Western Saharan Sahrawi, mostly living in Algerian-sponsored camps in the southwestern Algerian town of Tindouf)
IDPs: 100,000 – 200,000 (conflict between government forces, Islamic insurgents) (2004)
Angola IDPs: 40,000-60,000 (27-year civil war ending in 2002; 4 million IDPs already have returned) (2004)
Armenia refugees (country of origin): 236,306 (Azerbaijan)
IDPs: 50,000 (conflict with Azerbaijan over Nagorno-Karabakh) (2004)
Azerbaijan IDPs: 571,000 (conflict with Armenia over Nagorno-Karabakh) (2004)
Bangladesh IDPs: 61,000 (land conflicts, religious persecution) (2004)
Bosnia and Herzegovina IDPs: 327,200 (Bosnian Croats, Serbs, and Muslims displaced in 1992-95 war) (2004)
Burma IDPs: 600,000 – 1,000,000 (government offensives against ethnic insurgent groups near borders; most IDPs are ethnic Karen, Karenni, Shan, and Mon) (2004)
Burundi refugees (country of origin): 60,288 (Democratic Republic of the Congo)
IDPs: 140,000 (armed conflict between government and rebels; most IDPs in northern and western Burundi) (2004)
Cameroon refugees (country of origin): 39,261 (Chad) 16,983 (Nigeria) 9,634 (Cote d’Ivoire) (2004)
Central African Republic refugees (country of origin): 36,479 (Sudan) 1,864 (Chad) 6,484 (Democratic Republic of the Congo)
IDPs: 200,000 (unrest following coup in 2003) (2004)
Chad refugees (country of origin): 200,000 (Sudan) 30,000 (Central African Republic) (2004)
China refugees (country of origin): 299,287 (Vietnam) estimated 30,000-50,000 (North Korea) (2004)
Colombia IDPs: 2,730,000 – 3,100,000 (conflict between government and FARC; drug wars) (2004)
Congo, Democratic Republic of the refugees (country of origin): 45,060 (Sudan) 100,000 (Angola) 19,552 (Burundi) 6,626 (Republic of Congo) 19,743 (Rwanda) 18,953 (Uganda)
IDPs: 2.33 million (fighting between government forces and rebels since mid-1990s; most IDPs are in eastern provinces) (2004)
Congo, Republic of the IDPs: 60,000 (multiple civil wars since 1992; most IDPs are ethnic Lari) (2004)
Cote d’Ivoire refugees (country of origin): 71,711 (Liberia)
IDPs: 500,000 (2002 coup; most IDPs are in western regions) (2004)
Croatia IDPs: 12,600 (Croats and Serbs displaced in 1992-1995 war) (2004)
Cyprus IDPs: 265,000 (both Turkish and Greek Cypriots; many displaced for over 30 years) (2004)
Djibouti refugees (country of origin): 25,474 (Somalia) (2004)
Egypt refugees (country of origin): 70,215 (Palestinian Territories) (2004)
Eritrea IDPs: 59,000 (border war with Ethiopia from 1998-2000; most IDPs are near the central border region) (2004)
Ethiopia refugees (country of origin): 93,032 (Sudan) 23,578 (Somalia)
IDPs: 132,000 (border war with Eritrea from 1998-2000 and ethnic clashes in Gambela; most IDPs are in Tigray and Gambela Provinces) (2004)
Gaza Strip refugees (country of origin): 922,674 (Palestinian Refugees (UNRWA)) (2004)
Georgia IDPs: 260,000 (displaced from Abkhazia and South Ossetia) (2004)
Ghana refugees (country of origin): 42,466 (Liberia) (2004)
Guatemala IDPs: 250,000 (government’s scorched-earth offensive in 1980s against indigenous people) (2004)
Guinea refugees (country of origin): 133,175 (Liberia) 13,633 (Sierra Leone) 7,064 (Cote d’Ivoire)
IDPs: 100,000 (cross-border incursions from Liberia, Sierra Leone, Cote d’Ivoire) (2004)
India refugees (country of origin): 92,394 (Tibet/China) 60,922 (Sri Lanka)
IDPs: 650,000 (Jammu and Kashmir conflicts; most IDPs are Kashmiri Hindus); 113,000 (resulting from 26 December 2004 tsunami) (2004)
Indonesia IDPs: 535,000 (government offensives against rebels in Aceh; most IDPs in Aceh, Central Kalimantan, Maluku, and Central Sulawesi Provinces); 441,000 (resulting from 26 December 2004 tsunmai) (2004)
Iran refugees (country of origin): 1,223,823 (Afghanistan) 124,014 (Iraq) (2004)
Iraq refugees (country of origin): 150,000 (Palestinian Territories)
IDPs: 1,340,280 (ongoing US-led war and Kurds’ subsequent return) (2004)
Israel IDPs: 276,000 (Arab villagers displaced from homes in northern Israel) (2004)
Jordan refugees (country of origin): 1,740,170 (Palestinian Refugees (UNRWA))
IDPs: 800,000 (1967 Arab-Israeli War) (2004)
Kenya refugees (country of origin): 154,272 (Somalia) 11,139 (Ethiopia) 63,197 (Sudan)
IDPs: 350,000 (KANU attacks on opposition tribal groups in 1990s) (2004)
Korea, North IDPs: 50,000-250,000 (government repression and famine) (2004)
Lebanon refugees (country of origin): 394,532 (Palestinian Refugees (UNRWA))
IDPs: 300,000 (1975-90 civil war, Israeli invasions) (2004)
Liberia refugees (country of origin): 13,941 (Sierra Leone) 38,325 (Cote d’Ivoire)
IDPs: 500,000 (civil war from 1990-2004; IDP resettlement began in November 2004) (2004)
Macedonia IDPs: 2,678 (ethnic conflict in 2001; most IDPs have returned) (2004)
Maldives IDPs: 12,000 (26 December 2004 tsunami victims) (2005)
Mexico IDPs: 12,000 (government’s quashing of Zapatista uprising in 1994 in eastern Chiapas Region) (2004)
Moldova IDPs: 1,000 (internal secessionist uprising in Transdniestrian region in 1991) (2004)
Nepal refugees (country of origin): 104,235 (Bhutan)
IDPs: 100,000-200,000 (ongoing conflict between government forces and Maoist rebels; displacement spread across the country) (2004)
Nigeria IDPs: 250,000 (communal violence between Christians and Muslims since President OBASANJO’s election in 1999) (2004)
Pakistan refugees (country of origin): 1,064,230 (Afghanistan)
IDPs: undetermined (government strikes on Islamic militants in South Waziristan) (2004)
Peru IDPs: 60,000 (civil war from 1980-2000; most IDPs are indigenous peasants in Andean and Amazonian regions) (2004)
Philippines IDPs: 150,000 (fighting between government troops and MILF and Abu Sayyaf groups) (2004)
Russia IDPs: 368,000 (displacement from Chechnya and North Ossetia) (2004)
Rwanda refugees (country of origin): 37,691 (Democratic Republic of the Congo)
IDPs: 4,158 (incursions by Hutu rebels from Democratic Republic of the Congo, 1997-99; most IDPs in northwest) (2004)
Saudi Arabia refugees (country of origin): 240,000 (Palestinian Territories) (2004)
Senegal IDPs: 17,000 (clashes between government troops and separatists in Casamance region) (2004)
Serbia and Montenegro refugees (country of origin): 99,170 (Bosnia) 188,656 (Croatia)
IDPs: 225,000 (mostly ethnic Serbs and Roma who fled Kosovo in 1999) (2004)
Sierra Leone refugees (country of origin): 67,000 (Liberia) (2004)
Somalia IDPs: 375,000 (civil war since 1988, clan-based competition for resources) (2004)
Sri Lanka IDPs: 362,000 (both Tamils and non-Tamils displaced due to Tamil conflict); 555,000 (resulting from 26 December 2004 tsunami) (2004)
Sudan refugees (country of origin): 108,251 (Eritrea) 5,023 (Chad) 7,983 (Uganda)
IDPs: 4.367 million (internal conflict since 1980s; ongoing genocide) (2004)
Syria refugees (country of origin): 413,827 (Palestinian Refugees (UNRWA))
IDPs: 170,000 (most displaced from Golan Heights during 1967 Arab-Israeli War) (2004)
Tanzania refugees (country of origin): 447,877 (Burundi) 153,155 (Democratic Republic of the Congo) 3,036 (Somalia) (2004)
Thailand refugees (country of origin): 118,407 (Burma) (2004)
Turkey IDPs: 350,000-1,000,000 (fighting from 1984-99 between Kurdish PKK and Turkish military; most IDPs in southeastern provinces) (2004)
Uganda refugees (country of origin): 184,731 (Sudan) 18,000 (Rwanda)
IDPs: 1.4 million note – ongoing Lord’s Resistance Army (LRA) rebellion, mainly in the north; LRA frequently attacks IDP camps (2004)
Uzbekistan IDPs: 3,000 (forced population transfers by government from villages near Tajikistan border) (2004)
West Bank refugees (country of origin): 665,246 (Palestinian Refugees (UNRWA)) (2004)
World the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) estimated that in December 2003 there was a global population of 9.7 million refugees and as many as 25 million IDPs
Yemen refugees (country of origin): 60,901 (Somalia) (2004)
Zambia refugees (country of origin): 158,894 (Angola) 58,405 (Democratic Republic of the Congo) 5,767 (Rwanda) (2004)
Zimbabwe IDPs: 100,000-150,000 (MUGABE-led political violence, human rights violations, land reform, and economic collapse) (2004)

This page was last updated on 9 August, 2005

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21 DaninVan 08.24.05 at 9:02 PM

Kinda puts a different face on the EU’s largesse towards the palestinians, eh?
The squeaky wheel…

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22 Tré 08.24.05 at 9:41 PM

Cliff, how am I a hypocrite? The settlers are settlers on other people’s land. The point of their settlement was expansion and the further dispossession of another people.

Dan, what exactly is your argument. There are other DPs and IDPs so its OK? Do you tell them and the people who support them to shut the hell up too cause they are not alon? WTF!

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23 Tré 08.24.05 at 9:48 PM

PS: The Palestinians are also the largest and oldest group.

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24 Malia 08.25.05 at 12:37 AM

The Arabs didn’t start calling themselves “Palestinians” until the late 1960’s. Before that Jews were called “Palestinian.” Want to explain that?

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25 cliff from montreal 08.25.05 at 1:07 AM

Hanthala
You said’Cliff, how am I a hypocrite? ‘ I reply’ You have to read your comments with a fair and balanced mind to see you hang yourself higher than arafats goons ever could.’Hum, on the other hand,we have the queen of selective memory at work again.Will it ever end Hanthala ?
You scream bloody murder when some hapless pali terrorist child killer bites the dust, but the moment a Jew is involved (in something good mind you)you become as cold and as unforgiving as death.You use doublespeak like it’s fact!For example, you said ‘but you still are not allowed to practice ethnic cleansing on it.’ and then you expect us dhimmis to say nothing? You have a lot of nerve to try that bull here lady.Here’s another classic beauty from your copy of the PA ‘I’m a victim’ handbook, straight from your Jew hating mouth, Hanthala. You said’The 1967 war was started by Israel attacking Egyptian forces.’ I reply ‘Yep, you are 100% right on BUT, (and that’s about the only fact that you are correct on) BUT, your selective memory forgot to mention that your people made the war a reality through no fault of Israels.As usual!And this myth has been fisked over and over again. But like warmed over lama poo, you keep repeating the same garbage.
You can’t have it both ways H.I call you on your litany of mis-information and lies.You are a classic hypocrite and a bigot to boot.
Oh and spare us this bull ‘PS: The Palestinians are also the largest and oldest group.’ Proving once again without a doubt that H can shoot herself in the foot while it’s inserted in her mouth.

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26 segacs 08.25.05 at 2:58 AM

Wow, I go out of town for one day and this debate erupts. Geez. At least it’s lively.

Cliff: No idea why you’re being banned. Not intentional, believe me. Maybe you’re posting from the same IP range as someone I had to ban for trolling? I’ll investigate.

Hanthala/Tre: You said: “Jewish settlers recently forced to move from their homes at least got compensation. All the Palestinians got was 50 years of statelessness.” Oh, and what did the 600,000 Jews who were forcibly expelled (or “ethnically cleansed”, if you prefer) from Arab nations in 1948 get as compensation?

Dan: You can get updated stats on refugees and IDPs from UNHCR’s website (www.unhcr.ch). UNHCR is responsible for ALL of the 18 million-odd refugees and IDPs in the world, except the Palestinians, who get “special status” with their own agency, UNRWA.

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27 Tré 08.25.05 at 2:30 PM

This is not a lively debate, Sari, that guy is in hysterics.

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28 Tré 08.25.05 at 2:35 PM

On the subject of Jews from other Middle Eastern states, I agree, those forcibly expelled and banned from return also deserve compensation from those states. How this negates the Palestinians’ right to compensation…

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29 John Palubiski 08.25.05 at 2:59 PM

You know, Tré, I used to sympathise a great deal with the Palestinian cause. I remember being angry about 15 years ago when some Jewish “settlers” established themselves in Hebron, I believe.

I thought it was a case of “neo-colonialism” at its finest.

Then one day, just by chance, I stumbled across a little article detailing the eviction of the Jews from the town during a vicious pogrom in 1929. There was a Jewish school that had been in continuous operation for generations.

And the Jews themselves had been living there since biblical days.

Any speculation about “root causes”?

It’s funny, too, because in 1929 Israel didn’t even exist.

It’s little peripheral details like that that tell you what’s really going on at the palestinian “centre”.

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30 Tré 08.25.05 at 3:14 PM

Yes, I know about that. In 1929, Israel didn’t exist, but the Balfour Declaration did. Taking that incident to make generalized claims about Palestinians is like taking the example of Baruch Goldstein and applying to the Jewish Israeli centre.

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31 John Palubiski 08.25.05 at 4:32 PM

Look Tré, I’m not of the opinion that ALL Israelis are sweetness and light. There are, as you pointed out, a few rotten fruit here and there.

However, Tré, what you fail to understand is that on the Israeli side the few bad apples that exist are marginal to the whole enterprise, whereas on the Palestinian side they’re CENTRAL to the whole friggin’ probleme.

Tré, you’ll know the day has come to talk serious turkey when Palestinians denounce Hamas et al as much and as stridently as Israel has denounced the actions of B. Goldstein.

Why can’t you see that?

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32 DaninVan 08.25.05 at 4:52 PM

JohnP; ’cause it’s easier to roll a pyramid uphill than to get a ‘Palestinian Cause’ supporter to admit their pov is flawed.

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33 cliff from montreal 08.25.05 at 5:20 PM

Dear H
If only you would use a fair and balanced approach to the issues,I and many others here wouldn’t have to call you on your lies and mis-information. For a valid example of ‘hysterics’,you need not look further than your own comments.

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34 DaninVan 08.25.05 at 7:27 PM

Cliff; I actually feel sorry for Hanthala; she’s (I’m assuming that she is, by birth rather than choice, a party to the dispute) stuck with a hopeless cause and is remaining loyal to it. What a waste.

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35 Tré 08.25.05 at 8:45 PM

John:

However, Tré, what you fail to understand is that on the Israeli side the few bad apples that exist are marginal to the whole enterprise, whereas on the Palestinian side they’re CENTRAL to the whole friggin’ probleme.

(That was a quote…friggin office de la langue and french keyboards…can’t find the &?%$//@%* quotation marks)

That’s a matter of opinion. Many people hold the same opinion of Israeli society. In either case, reiterating this mantra is not conducive to any kind of reconciliation. Its a discussion staller.

Dan:

No need for condescention. As for hopeless, I don’t think the situation is that way and thankfully, neither do many in the Middle East.

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36 Malia 08.26.05 at 12:01 AM

Tre is obviously delusional. If she’s a Muslim that explains a lot.

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37 cliff from montreal 08.26.05 at 7:08 AM

Hi Dan,good to talk with you again 🙂
I can’t feel sorry for someone who supports the mass murderers who wish to wipe my people off the face of the earth.I do feel pity on them because their worthless lives are filled with such hate and envy.The truth is the pal cause is more about greed and ego.The greed of not being able to share 1/10’th of 100% of the actual land mass in the middle east with the Jews.The ego comes in the form of trying to erase any trace of the actual first inhabitants(the Jews) and making up some fairytale story about a super race of people called the palestinians, whom we know never existed. They are driven by this fantasy, and that is why we are at war with their culture of death.
Strange that this warlike society the pals have created have so much in common with nazi Germany when hitler and his henchmen created the myth of the ‘all powerful aryan superman’ vs the ‘dirty Jew’
Like hitler, arafat and his arab league lowlifes established the environment in which to create myth of the ‘super jihadist’ in the form of homicide bombers, and assorted terrorists,who would rescue the downtrodden palestians, from the ‘dirty Jews’, and then after making the ultimate sacrifice,they would be worshipped and lionized, almost G_D like! I can’t get over just how similar nazism,communism and jihadist islam are.They all rely on the myth of the super whatever.And they always fail.

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38 John Palubiski 08.26.05 at 3:28 PM

Tré, it isn’t just “a question of opinion”!

In the Arabo/Muslim world suicide bombers are idolized and worshipped. The more they kill, the greater the glee!

On the Israeli side the reaction is quite the opposite.

Now, I,ll ask my (very important) question, once again: Why can’t you see that?

On a slightly different, but similar note, the jihadis are now promising to target Catholic churches AND The Vatican. The reason? Last week the Pope had the “audacity” to ask that mainstream “moderate” German Mulsim organisations help in the fight against terrorism.

Do you see any difference, Tré, between an alter-boy and a bearded human grenade?

Or are you still pondering *root causes* perplexed, as you appear to be, as to just why Islam is developing such a lousy reputation.

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39 Tré 08.26.05 at 5:34 PM

‘On the Israeli side the reaction is quite the opposite.’

Oh please. The Israelis have their own madrassas where children are taught that the only good arab is a dead one. Where they grow up wanting to join the IDF so can shoot themselves some Arabs. The IDF kills with impunity (except when they are Arab-Israeli).

As for your question, I don’t see the relevance. Terrosit groups like Al-Qaeda may use the Palestinian issue to justify their acts, but surely you are not blaming the Palestinians for that too?

Cliff, the error in your analysis lies in lumping all Arabic-speaking peoples into one group. You also fail to recognize that the Palestinian refugees lived on the land in question and had done so for generations before the Europeans decided it should be given to someone else.

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40 John Palubiski 08.26.05 at 5:45 PM

Yeah, Tré, ok!

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41 Tré 08.26.05 at 5:57 PM

And John, if you want to see just how CENTRAL the Israeli bad apples are, just go to websites like LGF, or take Malia’s posts, and replace the words Muslim or Arab with Jew and Palestinian with Israeli. I would give you some examples to demonstrate, but I’d be banned for antisemitism.

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42 DaninVan 08.26.05 at 7:02 PM

I hope somebody brought a keg ’cause it looks like this could take a while.
Furthermore it’s Friday, which means our hostess is off trysting somewhere.

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43 Tré 08.26.05 at 9:46 PM

TGIF 🙂 Have a good weekend all!!

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44 cliff from montreal 08.26.05 at 10:08 PM

H What color is the sky in your world,eh? Are you so full of hate towards the ‘other side’, that your ego forces you to repeat the same old lies again and again? We have cut all your arguments to shreds, yet like an old stinky dog with no teeth, you persist,barking loudly,hoping that we will run.That won’t happen! Not to mention that you still use the classic mis-direction techniques that you learned from your copy of the’i’m a victim’ handbook’, penned by your heros in the PA and the arab league.Honestly,are you intentionally vague in regards to our questions, because sooner or later you think you can get ‘one up’ on us? Not to mention your condescending attitude, only confirm without a doubt, that you are just trolling. Perhaps it would be a good idea for you to STOP putting words in our mouths that we never said, which BTW is another classic tactic you types employ! like I said before, you do a mighty fine job of hanging yourself,you don’t need our help.
Yep, have a great weekend.You can get back to spewing the good old hate on Monday.

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45 DaninVan 08.26.05 at 11:20 PM

Cliff; do you and Hanthala have ‘history’? Just curious, you sure take this debating thing to heart (given that we really have little influence on events).
I’m really surprised that she hangs around here with all the abuse she takes; (miss’ochism?)

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46 cliff from montreal 08.27.05 at 12:44 AM

We have no history whatsoever, except she must love the abuse.I have NO respect for the ‘other side’ so I freely take the time to show her.I love to see them squirm and do everything possible to avoid answering the questions.It’s as simple as that.They are a shallow cowardly bunch.Maybe it’s because here in Montreal I have seen such a remarkable increase in anti-Jew sentiment, that has also affected me personally! So I’m taking a stand.And using dialog is how I fight back, unlike our pal friends who think nothing of using hateful lies and falsehoods and the odd threat to get their points across.

BTW, I’m still banned.Maybe I should call myself ‘Just a Cliff’ 🙂
Just kidding 🙂

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47 John Palubiski 08.27.05 at 5:49 PM

Tré, what has LGF got to do with anything here?

What kind of a debater would I be if in response to you querries I merely cited “Moveon.org” or “Whatreallyhappened.com”?

Give me something to work with here!

I find your assertion that Rabbis too are running Mardrassas just absurd; so much so, that one is almost tempted to enquire into your state of mental health!

And do the graduates of these….um… Jewish “madrassas” firebomb….say….Koranic elementary schools…..in say…..Montréal?

You cite nothing more than run-of-the-mill, “amour de soi” human chauvinism that ALL cultures possess (including us Poles) and you then attempt to draw an equivalence between that and the insane ravings of insane, murderous, supremacist thugs.

And all this because you WON’t make an effort to think things through.

Your logic is lazy, Tré!

Were I a Mother Superior, I’d say “shame on you”!

I’m off the the Jean Talon market….

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48 DaninVan 08.27.05 at 7:10 PM

Cliff; e-mail Sari, I’m guessing (as she suggested earlier) that you’re in the same banned range of IPs as a recently disappeared troll. He said he loved her but the lavish gifts just weren’t forthcoming…;)

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49 DaninVan 08.28.05 at 5:02 PM

Only slightly OT:
Bomb blast hits Philippines ferry

Injured children suffered serious burns in the blast
A bomb on a ferry in the southern Philippines has injured at least 30 people, including nine children.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4192102.stm

Anyone want to take a stab (oops,bad word choice…) at who takes credit for this? How about you, Tre?

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50 Tré 08.29.05 at 2:10 PM

Are you so full of hate towards the ‘other side’,

I have NO respect for the ‘other side’

(Again no quotation marks)

Two quotes by Mr. Cliff in the same thread. Need I say more?

John, yes there are ultra-nationalist Jewish schools in Israel where hatred is taught (madrassas being the Arabic word for school, part of not translating that word in an English article is to make the whole thing sound more foreign). Letters from such students to Israeli soldiers were intercepted a while ago and it was reported in a hebrew language Israeli paper (Yedioth Ahronoth, Israeli friend translated for me, the article did not appear in the English version edition of the paper). The letters contained such beautiful, peace loving statements as`kill an Arab for me`.

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