Hamas’s election “victory”

01.26.06

With the victory of Hamas, the media is awash with clichés such as that the Palestinians have chosen “terror over peace”. As if Fatah was a true peace partner, committed to reconciliation and the middle ground.

Bullshit.

The Palestinian people have chosen one form of terror over another form of terror. The only difference between Hamas and Fatah is that Hamas is open about its aims, while Fatah carries out terror attacks and then pays lip service towards “condemning” them. The people chose Hamas because it is perceived as less corrupt than Fatah, not because of any failings of the peaceful alternative. There was never a peaceful alternative.

The real question is, now what? There will be an element who insists on turning a blind eye to the truth and fooling itself that Hamas will reform, suddenly giving up its weapons because it’s got a role in government. These are the same people who keep insisting that there’s been a truce effective this past year.

The United States will refuse to deal with Hamas… maybe. Expect a lot of waffling on that one in the coming months. Europe will deal with them, probably with lip service about how much they’ve “changed”. Again, these are the same people who repeatedly insist that there’s a truce.

For Israel – dare I say – little is likely to change. Negotiations were a non-starter even with Abbas, and Israel will still have to prioritize security measures in defence of its citizens, just as before. Maybe there will be less hypocrisy now. But don’t count on it.

Tim Blair has a roundup of reactions. Jonathan has some day-after musings. And, as usual, Meryl has lots to say.

{ 50 comments… read them below or add one }

1 cliff from montreal 11.30.-1 at 12:00 AM

Will the bloody non existant culture get off their lazy greedy behinds and finally act like humans?

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2 Tré 01.26.06 at 5:19 PM

“I don’t see how you can be a partner in peace if you advocate the destruction of a country as part of your platform,” from Bush. Typical, since it seems to depend on who’s side you’re on. The Israeli government has been destroying Palestinians’ chances of ever having a state by continuously expanding settlement in the West Bank. As for armed resistance, it is all peoples’ right under international law. To aks Palestinians to lay down arms while under aggressive military occupation is foolish, unrealistic, immoral and illegal.

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3 Malia 01.27.06 at 12:27 AM

No Tre what is immoral and illegal is to blow up little children just because they are Jewish. You are a despicable human if I can even call you that.
The phony “Palestinians” should go bakc to Syria, Jordan and Egypt where their ancestors came from and leave Israel alone!

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4 DaninVan 01.27.06 at 1:20 AM

Hi Malia; long time!

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5 Pauline 01.27.06 at 3:48 AM

This here might interest you guys:

http://www.jta.org/page_view_breaking_story.asp?intid=1069&ref=daily_briefing

Not re the Palestinian elections, but just same old same old.

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6 Peter 01.27.06 at 4:58 AM

They are both offshoots of the Muslim Brotherhood. Arafat’s Fidel Castro uniform really shouldn’t have fooled anyone. They both use religious symbols for their national “identity”. Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade for Fatah, and well Hamas for Hamas. Hama really doesn’t make any bones about being a religious organization. Read their charter. Its all about Muslim Brotherhood crap. Also, Arafats father in Egypt was a lieutenant of the Muslim Brotherhood who moved with his son Yasser to the Mandate specifically to stir up trouble.

This really is the crux of “Palestinian Identity”. They really have no national identity so they use muslim symbols. The geography of the Arabs stretches from the Persian Gulf to north west Africa. It is a land divided by fiefdoms whose rulers are primarily thieves. That is all we can expect from the Muslims. Isolate them. Contain them. But don’t try to civilize them.

Oh yeah. And kick them out of Israel. They Arabs have enough land to settle them.

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7 cliff from montreal 01.27.06 at 7:00 AM

Tre..your bull never ends.

You said “To aks Palestinians to lay down arms while under aggressive military occupation is foolish, unrealistic, immoral and illegal.”

What? You are of course referring to your thug heroes in charge at hamASS/fatah who are currently oppressing your PA Arabs in a very “aggressive military occupation”.

Look in the mirror if you want to play the blame game,cause in reality, the only state you hypocritical Jew haters want, is a state of war.

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8 Tré 01.27.06 at 2:16 PM

Didn’t think I’d ever agree with Stephen Harper, but he is the only leader I heard quoted on the Hamas victory who made any sense although they all seemed to be saying the same thing. Harper said Canada would not enter discussions with Hamas until it renounced ‘terrorism.’ Everyone else said ‘violence.’ The latter is, of course, ridiculous. Israel has not renounced violence, neither has Canada, the US or any other state.

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9 cliff from montreal 01.27.06 at 4:28 PM

Mis-direction to tre.Playing games with words again..

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10 John Palubiski 01.27.06 at 4:30 PM

Tré, a major probleme with you reasoning is this; the Palestinians AREN’T native to the region to begin with.

Hamas hasn’t taken up arms to protect innocent Palestinians and to promote their identity, rather they bear arms in order to further an Islamist agenda. It is an agenda fueled by naked, unadulterated hatred and motivated by sentiments of “ontic” supremacy that echo those of you-know-who.

The fact they’re islamist and non-western blinds you to the reality that Hamas is, in the end, just another FAR-RIGHT political entity masking its carnivorous chauvinism behind a veil of “vegan” religious piety.

Yes! That’s it! Hamas is inspired by Ghandi!

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11 DaninVan 01.27.06 at 5:18 PM

Hey, Sari; how about getting John B to guest blog for you when you’re ummm, ‘unavailable’. These empty periods are hurting your readership!
As for Tre’s hobbyhorse, it’s getting old, fast.

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12 Ikram 01.27.06 at 5:41 PM

Just wondering, how many anti-Palestinian partisans beleive that Palestinians ‘don’t exist’, or have no national identity? Seems pretty widespread on Sari’s blog — though I’m pretty sure Sari herself does not subscribe to that view.

To put in another way, about what proportion of anti-Palestinian activists recognize that a Palestinian nation exists? What proportion deny its existance?

Guesses?

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13 segacs 01.27.06 at 7:24 PM

Dan: No guest bloggers. Sorry. Even if I could find a regular reader who I agreed with most of the time (which I haven’t yet), this is my blog simply cause I can write what I want, when I want. If someone wants to publish their own views, they can do so on their own blog.

Ikram: I have no idea, why don’t you conduct a survey?

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14 Ikram 01.27.06 at 7:58 PM

OK — Here’s the survey.

1)Does a Palestinian nation exist?

2)Is it more or less ‘indigenous’ than the Israeli nation?

3)Does indigeniety matter?

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15 bwas1 01.27.06 at 8:45 PM

Sari:

This subject is 100% correct as to its’ analysis of Hamas verses Fatah. Now if only you could see more clearly your perception of the Liberals and their bankrupt ideas verses the Conservatives.

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16 just a guy 01.28.06 at 6:13 AM

hi

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17 Malia 01.28.06 at 7:57 AM

Hi DaninVan! I have to admit that one of the reasons that I like this blog is because of your comments unlike Tre’s idiotic posts. The coward won’t debate me because she knows the truth is on my side.

Ikram;
1. No
2. The answer is less indigenous of course.
3. It does matter because Jews are indigenous to the land of Israel.

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18 DaninVan 01.29.06 at 3:23 AM

*Blush*…

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19 jonny 01.30.06 at 12:46 AM

Sari, you’re right. There is not too much difference between Fatah and Hamas as far as Israel is concerned – Fatah has a candidate named Hitler – the people that this result will most affect are the Pali’s ie. women will have to wear burqa’s etc….

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20 Michael 01.30.06 at 3:09 AM

My answer to the above survey questions would run something like this:

I suppose that today, if the average Palestinian population truly believed that they were a nation and that they have a common history and a common culture that is highly unique to themselves, then in one sense they are a nation.

Having said that, I don’t believe they are a nation or a people. Aside from the fact that they are a pawn in an Islamic war against Israel and Jews all around the world, the Palestinians were a remnant of Arab tribes who happened to be in the area of (what I will call) Israel.

It is unfair nowadays to just tell them to move, but I am deeply disturbed by the fact that Arab and or Muslim countries comprise 98% of the Middle East, given the fact that Arabs come from Arabia originally; and yet the Palestinians are never offered any help or offers of patriation into Arab lands that are home to many Palestinians already. The fact that Israel draws some much attention and ire is a testament to the anti-semitism that is still all to present in this world.

As for the indigenous part: I think it does matter, but I am well aware that no nation or people are really native to their lands if you go back far enough. Not to mention the concept of Nationalism is a very modern one.

For me, the bottom line is that it is up to the Palestinians to get their act together. I would prefer they leave Israel, but if they are to remain, then they have to stop blowing themselves up in the name of ‘desperation’ or ‘occupation’.

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21 Tré 01.30.06 at 1:59 PM

‘Just wondering, how many anti-Palestinian partisans beleive that Palestinians ‘don’t exist’, or have no national identity?’

Unfortunately, most that I have met Ikram. And judging from this site, the majority who post here.

Your next question should be, how many anti-Palestinians are racists. I’ve come to believe the majority are. Certainly everyone who posts on this site with the exception of Sari (though sometimes she says things that fringe on racism).

Hypocritical. Zionism (taken simply as Jewish national aspiration and not as Jewish entitlement to all of Palestine/Israel) was born at the same time as Palestinians’ national aspiration. Antisemitism is viewed by these posters as the obstacle to peace in the middle east yet they post their racism loud and clear without ever seeing it as a contributing factor.

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22 cliff from montreal 01.30.06 at 5:41 PM

Oh tre grow up.Your infantile (I’m a victim ®) rants and false accusations do nothing but prove to everybody that you are a liar and a bad one at that. You have NEVER been a victim (except in that sorry state of mind you have). Quite the contrary tre,you aspire to being quite the bigot/racist/jihadist supporter and exploiter yourself.Not only that, you are a proud Schutzstaffel, standing up to goose-step with the rest of your loony lefty goon friends.On the other hand,I grew up living with racist lowlifes like yourself and can safely conclude, your kind is loathsome!

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23 Tré 01.30.06 at 6:26 PM

There you go.

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24 cliff from montreal 01.30.06 at 7:47 PM

tre,gee ..you are as predictable as lead! Always falling back on your old excuses when you have nothing of value to add, especially when you have lost another argument (like now, for example).But hey, at least you are not shouting profanities as us like you did not to long ago..or have you forgotten?

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25 DaninVan 01.30.06 at 8:40 PM

Crap; I take the dog for a walk and I miss the action!
I’m sure the Arabs would be somewhat bemused to know that they’re a different “race” than we Jews, especially the Sephardic.
I’m bigotted, Tre; I’ll thank you to remember that. (Racist indeed; man, some people…)

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26 Tré 01.30.06 at 8:52 PM

Semantics, Dan.

Cliff, when have you added anything of value to any topic of discussion.

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27 DaninVan 01.30.06 at 9:11 PM

Semantics? I think not; semitics, maybe…

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28 Tré 01.30.06 at 9:21 PM

Actually, I did mean racist. The way the term ‘Arabs’ is used on this site is more of a racial construction.

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29 DaninVan 01.30.06 at 9:39 PM

I’m detecting a continuous loop(y) here…

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30 jonny 01.30.06 at 11:52 PM

Dani, continuous loop? That reminds me of the time I got stuck in the shower… the shampoo bottle had written on it:

Wash.
Rinse.
Repeat.

Did I mention that I was taking comp sci 101 at the time.

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31 DaninVan 01.31.06 at 12:35 AM

Heh, that’s probably why women take so long in the bathroom.

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32 cliff from montreal 01.31.06 at 3:23 AM

tre, not that you could actually win anyone over to your point of view.What with your razor sharp pristine logic and exquisitely accurate facts, not to mention your witty retorts..you are literally the last person here who should lecture us on subjects that you possess no capacity of understanding. You dear are as comforting as a cold damp brick and quite as think.

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33 Tré 01.31.06 at 3:32 PM

SO it is you…

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34 Tré 01.31.06 at 3:34 PM

Thank you Cliff. Much appreciated.

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35 ? 01.31.06 at 4:28 PM

Why does this all seem so much like:

A: I’m right and you aren’t.

B: I’m a real person and you aren’t.

A: I come from a real culture and you don’t.

B: I’m right and you aren’t.

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36 DaninVan 01.31.06 at 4:42 PM

?: So, are you going to tell us the correct answers ?

?, in case you hadn’t noticed, one of those “cultures” has as it’s mission statement the complete obliteration of the other (a clue: starts with ‘P’).
We (the non-‘P’ one), having already tried the being-obliterated thing, sort of object to being the obliteratee.
The ‘P’ guys can’t understand our lack of co-operation in the obliteration process. (I DID mention that we’d tried it and didn’t like it very much, didn’t I?)
Hope that helped, ‘?’

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37 Tré 01.31.06 at 4:42 PM

Well ?, perhaps its because you are not reading proprely. You’re close, but its more like:

A: You don’t exist
A: My culture is better than yours since you don’t have one
B: What you are saying is racist
A: See???????See????? I knew you were an anti-semite
A: All of you asre antisemites

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38 DaninVan 01.31.06 at 6:19 PM

The ‘P’eople have spoken…

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39 DaninVan 02.01.06 at 12:58 AM

Unfortunately Cliff, that’s exactly what they’ve been doing. They’ve got it down to an artform.

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40 cliff from montreal 02.01.06 at 5:25 AM

Funny thing Dan,they think they can fool us..Like our resident troll (where is a cold damp brick when you need one ,eh?) who thinks she can repeat the same old lies day in and day out hoping that we finally cave in..Ain’t gonna happen ..No way.

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41 8 02.01.06 at 2:55 PM

Its going to be that way Cliff, as long as you blow up little children just because they are Arabs. You are a despicable human if I can even call you that.

The phony “Israelis” should go back to Europe where their ancestors came from and leave Palestine alone!

That is all we can expect from the Jews. Isolate them. Contain them. But don’t try to civilize them.

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42 cliff from montreal 02.01.06 at 4:57 PM

Awww 8, doesn’t ‘8’.Rhymes with Hate?..And you forgot the other 8..Perfect for the likes of you and so original and captivating.Where did you get that idea? Stormfront?
I won’t bother to comment on the rest of the crap you spewed here.I’m too busy feeling sorry for you.
Get a life you little putz.

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43 cliff from montreal 02.01.06 at 5:19 PM

Oy, I fed a troll..Sorry folks.

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44 DaninVan 02.01.06 at 5:20 PM

Mini-Tre?

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45 Tré 02.01.06 at 6:03 PM

From Malia: ‘what is immoral and illegal is to blow up little children just because they are Jewish. You are a despicable human if I can even call you that.’

From 8: ‘Its going to be that way Cliff, as long as you blow up little children just because they are Arabs. You are a despicable human if I can even call you that.’

From Malia: ‘The phony “Palestinians” should go bakc to Syria, Jordan and Egypt where their ancestors came from and leave Israel alone!’

From 8: ‘The phony “Israelis” should go back to Europe where their ancestors came from and leave Palestine alone!’

From Cliff: ‘That is all we can expect from the Muslims. Isolate them. Contain them. But don’t try to civilize them.’

From 8: ‘That is all we can expect from the Jews. Isolate them. Contain them. But don’t try to civilize them.’

Interesting to see that only 8 got called for his comments.

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46 cliff from montreal 02.01.06 at 7:57 PM

tre..Ahem, seems you can’t read or understand anything..Not bad for a cold damp thick brick though.You said:From Cliff: ‘That is all we can expect from the Muslims. Isolate them. Contain them. But don’t try to civilize them.'”
I said that? You know tre(8) or whoever you pretend to be) you bigots are not the brightest bulbs in the forest of life, eh? Putting words in my mouth as usual when the truth is,you should wash yours out with strong soap.You are a creepy sort.
I deserve an apology from you!In fact you should apologize to everybody here.You stepped over the line once again.tre (8)

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47 cliff from montreal 02.01.06 at 8:00 PM

those (8) should be ( -8- )BTW.

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48 Tré 02.01.06 at 9:17 PM

You and Peter talk the same trash, can’t blame me for the mistaken id.

Cliff, you’re only talent appears to be creative insults (with no evidence whatsoever to support your accusations of racism).

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49 cliff from montreal 02.01.06 at 10:08 PM

Tre, what no apology? You show your stripes again!Like any good brick you see. No class.
So this reply is the best you can do? Compliment the ‘creative way’ I expose the truth about you and your racist ideology?
Sheeh

ps
BTW
You talk like a bigot,different name same ‘trash’
Gee,where have I heard that before?

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50 DaninVan 02.01.06 at 10:39 PM

Who’s “Peter”?
Somebody shoot this thread before it multiplies…

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